Submariner 116610LN must one the best-selling replica watch in our market, Noob factory has been known for making the highest quality replica Submariner 116610LN for years, the version now updated to V11. RXF also unveiled their 116610LN replica several weeks ago and got positive feedback. Today, I want to make a brief comparison between the Noob V11 Submariner 116610LN and RXF version.
My English is not very good, in some aspects, I can not explain clearly, hope you can understand. By the way, I took these photos with my mobile phone, maybe you can not see the difference clearly between the two models, sometimes even you need to use a magnifier to observe.
First, hold the two Submariners in hand, I can not see and feel the difference, both are top quality ones.
Some details are slightly different if you observe carefully. The lume pearl on the bezel. Under the same light condition, Noob looks whiter, while color of RXF is softened and has better transparency. However, both can be accepted.
On the dial, with your eyes, you can not see difference, but with a 15X magnifier, you will see that the edge of hour markers on RXF is polished to be better, while on Noob, it is uneven. About hands set, the axis is solid stainless steel, actually both factories use a small stainless steel “cap”, not fully solid.
About ceramic bezel, the biggest difficulty a factory need to face when they want to clone Submariner 116610LN. In the past years, whatever the Submariner replicas come from, even it is Noob V10, the platinum coating will fade. Now Noob V11 and RXF completely solved this problem, the platinum-coated bezel markers on both Submariners will not fade, the quality of ceramic bezel has even reached Switzerland standard.
About date magnifier, check RXF, it has light blue ar coating, while Noob V11 does not have. Both factories are correct, on genuine Submariner 116610LN, some has light blue ar coating on date magnifier, some also does not have. So, this should not become one point to discuss which one is better, so does the date font.
In case diameter, both watches are 40mm, and RXF is thinner than Noob V11, RXF is closer to genuine.
Overall, both Submariners from Noob and RXF are top quality, they represent the highest quality watch manufacturing level in our market. Considering the price, maybe more people are willing to choose RXF Submariner as their first replica.
Many readers here asked me about these two vintage Submariner watches, but they were only made by JF before and have been out of stock for a long time, however, several days ago, AR factory published these two models again. Why I say “again”? Because AR is a sub-factory of JF, AR only makes Rolex replicas. This time, AR published the vintage Submariner models 16610LN and 16610LV with several placed being improved.
In the past, the vintage Sub 16610LN and 16610LV from JF are made of 316L stainless steel, now AR factory uses the best 904L stainless steel to make them, case and bracelet are perfectly brushed, besides 904L stainless steel used on case and bracelet, the good quality finish has been proved, because we all know Rolex replica watches from AR factory have the best finish on case, no other watches can compare.
The insert is metal, not ceramic, it is pressed into the rotating bezel, AR does not use glue, the engravd markers have the same depth as genuine watch.
On the dial, the silver inner bezel is empty without engravings. Hour hand, minute hand and hour markers are applied with Swiss lume coating, the dial lume light in dark conditions is super strong and long lasting.
Behind the case back, it is AR factory’s SH3135 movement, there are necessary engravings on the back side of the case back, such as “ROLEX”, “GENEVA”, “SWITZERLAND”, etc. After checking the SH3135 movement, we saw that it is different from SA3135 from Noob factory, the latter is closer to genuine Rolex Cal.3135. The following are photos of vintage Submariner 16610LN and 16610LV.
Months ago, ZZ factory published their V2 edition of Submariner 116610LN replica, and they claimed that their Submariner is the best in the market, even better than the Submariner from Noob, because of their high-key promotion, many people abandoned Noob and turned to buy Submariner from ZZ factory, and now, whether Submariner 116610LN or Hulk Green 116610LV, they are all out of stock in ZZ factory, while Noob now is selling their Submariner at a discounted price, this has proven that Submariner from ZZ factory is the best.
Because currently the Submariner watches from ZZ factory are sold out and do not know when they will release their stocks next time, people’s demand for the Submariner 116610LN is large, so about one week ago, two big factories published their replicas of Submariner 116610LN, they are V6 and RXF, actually RXF is another name of XF, do you know XF? It is the factory that makes AP 15202, which is a very popular replica watch in 2020.
Too many factories are making the replicas of Submariner 116610LN, I am counting, actually more than ten factories, so today, I want to make a brief comparison between the Submariner from these factories, not a detailed comparison, just a simple buying guide, to make a summary of the advanges and disadvantages of Submariner in each factory.
Generally speaking, the 116610LN from Noob has many advantages, for example, dial printings, date font, date magnifier on the crystal, etched crown logo in the crystal, on Noob’s 116610LN, these details are all better than the 116610LN of other factories. Besides, the SA3135 movement equipped in Noob Submariner 116610LN uses blue Hairspring, the same as genuine. The updated V10s 116610LN from Noob factory is very perfect now, but it still has one main defect on the bezel, on some pieces, the bezel markers will become dark when you wear the watch after some time, that’s the biggest flaw which Noob factory still has not improved. Certainly, for people who are going to buy a Submariner as their first replica, I still suggest they buy from Noob.
We also call it ZZ factory. The quality of ZZF Submariner 116610LN is very close to that of Noob, there is no big difference between them. The bezel becomes the biggest advantage of ZZF Submariner, especially on its Green Hulk 116610LV, no dark spots could be found on the bezel, it is the bezel that is closest to original. Besides, on ZZF Submariner 116610LN, the bezel markers will not become dark or even black after time goes by. Besides, ZZ factory installs the crystal correctly, the crystal is not too high above the bezel. And maybe the only disadvantage of ZZF Submariner lies in its case and bracelet, whole finish is not as good as that of Noob and ARF. Unfortunately, the price of ZZF Submariner 116610LN is much higher than that of other factories, and usually out of stock.
The Submariner 116610LN from AR factory is also recommended by me, it is very good, in my opinion, has the same quality as Noob and ZZF. ARF 116610LN has one big advantage that other factories does not have, it is the case finish. And AR is the first factory to use 904L stainless steel, the finish on case and bracelet is perfect, other factories can not achieve such quality level. Second, the markers on the bezel are deeper, which look more three-dimensional. AR factory also offers one 3135 movement option for this watch, but the movement does not look the same as genuine Rolex 3135, I think Noob’s is better. And the etched laser crown in the crystal, not as good as Noob’s.
Fourth, RXF and V6F.
Here, the new RXF is also the old XF, the same factory. Why I put RXF and V6F together, both factories published their Submariner 116610LN one week ago, almost announced at the same time, I think the newly released Submariner 116610LN may be developed by them together, and then sold under two factories’ name, actually it is the same watch. RXF Submariner 116610LN is made with 904L stainless steel, they also claimed that their Submariner has been improved in many places such as dial printings, date font, crown position, etc., they listed these updated parts being compared with other factories on a paper that will be shipped with the watch in a box, once you receive the watch, you can read the paper clearly and see if RXF is telling you the truth or just lying. I did not get one Submariner 116610LN from RXF, I do not know the quality, but I think it will not be bad, because XF is a very famous factory too, besides, RXF also promises that they can replace the bezel for free if the watch you received has bezel issues, this sounds very nice. Other factories always charged a lot when need to replace the ceramic bezel. But currently RXF only offers A2824 movement option for their 116610LN.
In conclusion, to buy a replica Submariner 116610LN, those factories above are all good sources. Noob factory is my first recommendation because its reliable quality and current special price. If you are going to buy Green Hulk 116610LV, I only recommend ZZF. About RXF 116610LN, I trust their quality, but still needs time to test, I will tell you in future posts.
The following are pictures and video of V6F Submariner 116610LN.
In today’s post, all things are about Noob factory, before posting some photos of Noob Datejust here, I want to clarify some things here, I believe that these things have also confused you guys for a long time.
First, is Noob the biggest watch factory?
The answer is no. Many people think that Noob is the biggest watch factory here, absolutely not. Yes, maybe Noob has a good reputation in this area, but there are also many other famous factories such as ZF, J12, VS, even BP, I think they are all bigger than Noob.
Second, do Noob products cover all Swiss watches brands?
Absolutely no. Rolex is the main area of Noob, maybe they make some models of Panerai, AP ROO and Blancpain FF in the past, but nowadays, Noob only produces Rolex replicas. their main products are Rolex replicas that cover Submariner, Datejust II, YachtMaster, Sky-Dweller, Sea-Dweller, if you want to buy one PAM 111 or 005, maybe they still have some stocks. But I met some people, they wanted to buy the best Cartier replicas and asked me if I can get from Noob, I told them Noob does not make Cartier, they do not believe.
Third, does Noob open an official website online?
No, Noob never created an online business website. Other factories like ZF, BP, XF, VS, they also do not have online websites. So, websites like noobfactorywatches.shop, chinanoobwatch.io, they are not Noob’s official website, and these websites usually sold replica watches at very expensive prices.
Fourth, are Noob’s replicas the best?
That depends on products. For Submariner 116610LN and 116610LV, I thought Noob’s V10 is the best, now the best is made by ZZF. For Daytona, currently Noob makes the best ones. For GMT-Master II, I always do not suggest you buy, although GMT-Master II replicas such as Batman and Pepsi from Noob look nice, they are the replicas that easily have movement and bezel issues.
Back to today’s topic, it is about Datejust watch from Noob. In the past year, the focus of Noob factory’s work is not on Datejust, so, there are not good quality replicas of Datejust from Noob in last year, many clients wanted to buy a good quality Datejust replica, I always recommend models from AR or GM factory. In February or March, Noob updated their Datejust II models with 904L stainless steel, the watches I share below are all from Noob, and made with 904L stainless steel, with clone 3235 movement, this sounds good to some buyers who are Noob watch fans. For me, I do not think Noob Datejust has any advantages when being compared with the Datejust from AR factory, you know, this is the first time for Noob to use 904L stainless steel on their Datejust watches, while AR factory has updated their Datejust to V3 edition. By the way, these Datejust watches I share below also have 316L steel versions, the prices are cheaper. AR V3 Datejust has better case and bracelet, but it uses 2824 movement, while these Noob Datejust has 3235 movement option, which offers the replica correct time and date setting like genuine watch.
Submariner is a very important model in the development of Rolex, it even had a great impact on the entire Swiss watch industry. Many people will consider a Rolex first if they want to buy their first watch, while Submariner will become their first choice in Rolex. Rolex Submariner is very popular because it is very stable, and you can wear it in many occasions, whether to match your business suits or wear it for diving, it is a great watch.
In replica watch industry, Rolex Submariner has always been very hot, especially the models 116610LN and 116610LV. At the beginning, there are not too many factories making it, perhaps only BP and Noob, absolutely Noob factory makes the best replicas of Submariner, we know, BP only makes some low to moderate quality Rolex replicas. However, The replicas of Submariner 116610LN and 116610LV became to be very controversial, because too many factories entered into this field and started to make replicas of Submariner, and their quality is also very good, so, buyers got confused, they do not know which factory to purchase from.
Today, I write this article here, not to tell you which factory makes the best replicas of Submariner 116610LN or 116610LV, I do not know which one is the best, which factory’s Submariner is closer to genuine. here I write this article, just want to tell you guys some truth. First, if you want good quality Submariner replicas, please buy from Noob, AR or ZZ. I only recommend these three factories. Second, if you ask me which factory makes the best one, I do not know. I know you guys who read my blog articles are also members in those replica watches forums, many Chinese are active in the forums, and most are workers of those trusted dealers, once there are new products, these people will try their best to promote, so, do you really believe what they say? For example, when ZZ factory published V2 Submariner, they said it is the best Submariner in the market, but is it really better than Noob’s? Third, like I said before, every factory has their own advantages, also their selling points. On the Submariner, AR has the best case and bracelet finish, Noob has the best dial details, while ZZ has the best bezel, especially the green Submariner 116610LV, ZZ makes the green bezel correct, which is closest genuine, I think this is the reason why ZZ green Submariner 116610LV has a higher price than that of Noob.
Maybe Noob has felt the strong competition from ZZ factory, for their next generation of Submariner, I think they will continue to improve the ceramic bezel, especially the green ceramic bezel on 116610LV. On previous Noob Submariner from V5 to V8 edition, the color of bezel markers usually fades, Noob solved it on V10 edition, but on their green Submariner 116610LV, the green ceramic is not too pure, there are tiny black spots on some pieces, so you need to tell your dealers to check carefully so that they won’t get a bad one. About the ceramic bezel, I think Noob will improve it on next V11 or V12 edition. While ZZ factory said that whether on their black Submariner 116610LN or green hulk 116610LV, the bezel markers will never fade in color, they use real Platinum coating.
I was lucky to get one hulk Submariner from ZZ factory before, I compared it with Noob’s and found that ZZ indeed makes a better green ceramic bezel, the color is closer to that of genuine hulk. But I do not know whether it will fade or not, this lets time to prove. Whatever, if you want a hulk Submariner, both Noob and ZZ are good choices, but currently ZZ has the best green ceramic bezel. By the way, the latest black Submariner from ZZ is V2 edition, for green Sub, the latest version is V2s.
Here I share some photos and video of ZZ Green Submariner 116610LV, please check below.
2019 is a very prosperous year for replica watches industry, some factories brought us amazing replica watches with their breakthrough watch-making technology, thanks them, we all have the chance to appreciate the real super clones of Swiss brand watches. Now, during this period, the virus is getting worse abroad, every one is suggested to stay at home, not a good news, but at the same time you have a lot of time to read my reviews, before you place your order with some one, be sure to choose the best clone, other sellers may not give you honest advice, but you can seek help from me when hesitating. Today, I will show you the top ten best-selling sports watches in our market, absolutely they are not the real sports watches when being compared with Casio or Apple, so calling them luxury sports Swiss watches is more appropriate. Here comes the top ten list.
1.Noob Daytona 116500 V3
We know replica watches have passed through several stages of development, those replica watches made before 2019, we could call them “quality replicas”, but about this Daytona 116500 from Noob, only “super clone” can describe it. Besides Daytona, Noob also published GMT-Master in 2019, you can call them “super clones”, which means the best of best. With newly developed Daytona products, Noob beated AR factory and becomes the no.1. The best-selling Daytona from Noob is 116500, which features white dial and black ceramic bezel. Actually other Daytona models from Noob are also selling well, for example, the grey Daytona with black rubber strap, ice blue Daytona, etc.
2. Noob Submariner 116610LN V10
Black Submariner 116610LN is the best selling product of Noob before 2019, now it comes to the second position next to their Daytona. The latest version of Submariner from Noob came to V10 in 2019, it is made with 904L stainless steel and uses Super Clone 3135, now their 3135 movement has become very reliable, Submariner 116610LN is the first watch I recommend if you are going to buy a replica Rolex. About water resistance, you can wear it to swim in the pool, no doubt about this, if your trusted dealer did a strict QC for you, you can wear this Submariner watch to dive in the sea.
3. PPF Nautilus 5711 Blue V3
Patek Philippe is the second best-selling brand in our market, next to Rolex, because its Nautilus is too hot. Nearly everyone who bought a Rolex Submariner 116610LN before will ask about Nautilus 5711, especially the one with blue dial. Too many factories have made the replicas of Nautilus 5711, there are BP, MK, PF and PPF. Among them, only PPF makes the most correct one, with right case thickness and correct blue dial color. The case thickness of Nautilus 5711 from PPF is 8.5mm, which is the same as genuine watch. And among those manufacturers mentioned above, PPF is the only one who makes the blue dial color right. Absolutely, the price is also very high. If you want Nautilus 5711 at cheaper price, MK factory is also a good choice.
4. JF ROO Diver 15703 V9.5
In this list, there must be a position for Audemars Piguet, which is a very famous luxury Swiss sports brand. Audemars Piguet is also very hot and is one of the mostly replicated brands in our market. Their Royal Oak 15400 and Royal Oak Offshore Diver have been popular for many years. If you are looking for a replica watch with diving style, Royal Oak Offshore Diver 15703 will be an ideal choice. The latest version from JF now comes to V9.5, it has a perfect case polishing which is much superior to other factories. The replica is equipped with A2824 movement, still no complaints from my customers after purchasing.
5. ZF Aquanaut 40mm Black
Aquanaut has rubber band, it looks more sporty than watches above. Like Patek Nautilus, there are also many factories making replica Aquanaut. PF, PPF, ZF and 3K all have good quality replicas of Aquanaut. But I think ZF makes the best one. First, ZF is a big factory, much bigger than 3K, PF and PPF. Second, the case finish on ZF Aquanaut is better than other factories. You know, now ZF has their own replicas of AP 15400 and 15500, these two AP replicas have a high requirement in case polishing, however, I have checked the case finish of ZF 15400, it is very good, even can be compared with the finish on JF 15400. So, I think the Aquanaut coming from ZF has the same polishing level as their AP 15400. 3K factory claimed that their Aquanaut has correct case thickness, but the rubber band is not very good. The case thickness of ZF Aquanaut is very close to genuine, and the rubber band is much better than 3K.
6. ZF Royal Oak 15400
I am very hesitated about which 15400 to put in this position, ZF 15400 or JF 15400? Both factories make good replicas of Royal Oak 15400, JF has improved their replica Royal Oak 15400 for many times, it even does not have any flaws, but since ZF started to make Royal Oak 15400, many customers turn to buy the one from ZF. The price from both factories is almost the same, ZF’s is a little higher, maybe it has a auto rotor with less noise.
7. VSF PAM 312
As a military brand in the past, now it is very popular among people who love sports watches. Panerai has many models that are selling well in our market, for example, PAM 127, unfortunately its replica is now discontinued in production here. While PAM 441 and PAM 438 made with ceramic do not look so sporty. PAM 1616 is a best seller in recent months, but its forged carbon style is not accepted by many people. So here I recommend PAM 312, after all, many buyers’ first choice is more willing to be a stainless steel model if they want a Panerai. The stainless steel PAM 312 also looks very classic.
8. V6F Big Bang Rose Gold
Among the watches in this list, maybe Hublot is the most sporty brand. Many people love this brand because of its unique case that has bold design. In 2019, maybe the best-selling replica Hublot watch is Classic Fusion from WWF, but here I recommend this rose gold Big Bang because it looks more sporty. The replica is made by V6 factory, the quality is guaranteed, many people prefer this watch not only its luxury rose gold tone, but also there are full of sporty elements on this watch. It is a replica with fully working chrono function, no doubt about this, the rubber material used on the band is also in top quality.
9. VSF Seamaster Diver 300m SS
There must be one Omega watch in this list, as one of the most successful luxury Swiss sports watches, Omega published a lot of attractive Seamaster watches in recent years, especially the models published for 007 series movies, they are pursued by many people. Just in last week, a good news coming from our market is that VS factory just unveiled the replica of new Omega 007 Bond watch, the No Time to Die. The one I recommend here is another Seamaster 300m watch from VS factory. About this Seamaster Diver 300m, there are several styles, SS, Two Tone and Ceramic. I love the one in full stainless steel, VS factory ship it in a plastic box with one card, you can also buy one extra nylon band with this watch.
10. VSF Submersible PAM 1616
Absolutely the most sporty PAM which Panerai has published in recent years. VS factory published the replica PAM 1616 in July 2019, and in the second half of 2019, the sales of PAM 1616 is crazy, everyone shown their interest in this watch. PAM 1616 is one of the most sporty model among all PAMs published by Panerai in recent years. The replica is made with real carbon material, whose grain is very close to genuine watch. It uses VS factory’s iconic P.9000 movement that is developed by themselves, reliable and durable. One reason that some people do not choose PAM 1616 is its big 47mm case size.
In recent two months, all are about Coronavirus, there are good and bad news, good news is that the virus is being under control now in China, while the bad news is it seems to be out of control in foreign countries such as in Italy, Germany and even in USA. Hope you guys stay safe at home, be sure to wear mask when go outside. I believe that the epidemic will soon pass, and our lives will return to normal.
Due to the virus, the shipping abroad is also affected, to most European countries and USA, they can receive watches successfully and even in time, to UK, there is a little trouble, we usually shipped watches to UK by EMS before, it was very quick and only took about 5 working days, but in recent two months, many EMS packages sent to UK were returned by the customs, I think it is because of the virus, the Chinese customs checked each EMS package very carefully, packages that did not meet their security requirement were returned. To avoid this situation, now we will provide DHL shipping service for our customers from UK, maybe it will be much quicker than EMS, and no return.
Good news also happened in our market, it is about watch factories, now all watch manufacturers are working normally. Just in last week, Noob published four new models of Daytona, each is in yellow gold/steel two tone style, the price is also a bit cheaper than the ceramic Daytona. Now, you have more options in Noob V3 Daytona. Among the four new models, each varies from dial color, there are black, white, grey and golden dial color options.
The four new models of Daytona 116523 replica is measured in 40mm in case diameter, has a 12.5mm case thickness, movement inside is Noob’s Super Clone 4130, which is the same as other V3 Daytona from Noob. About the movement, maybe a lot of people do not know why it is called “Super Clone 4130”, now I can give a very clear explanation. Just like many Swiss brands, their watches used movements that were modified from ETA, now they have their own in-house movements, like Panerai, they have in-hour P.9000 movement. About Noob factory, the movement equipped in Daytona before is A7750, which is based on a cheap Chinese chronograph movement, now the Super Clone 4130 is not based on any movement, Noob developed by themselves according to genuine Rolex 4130, it can be called Noob’s in-house 4130. With this brand-new 4130 movement, Noob’s Daytona products can have the same case thickness as genuine, without sacrifice of chrono function that happened on ARF’s Daytona.
Below are actual photos of four two tone Daytona models from Noob.
Noob factory has been back to work for almost two weeks, now it is better to place your orders with them quickly because Noob has many orders to process each day, if hesitate, you will need to wait for a long time to receive your watches. Any way, in shiping out our watches we ordered, Noob does better than other factories, they usually ship quickly, but for some specific models like 41mm Datejust, most are out of stock, their most popular Submariner and Daytona models, you can get one very fast. Noob’s products are very good, also have much higher prices than the same models from other factories, however, in details, you can not deny that Noob does better than other watch manufacturers, besides, Noob factory also publishes their specials from time to time, this sounds very nice to us. In the end of 2019, Noob did a great discount on their Daytona models made with 316L stainless steel, I published an article about this, and many clients responded to me and bought, now, I got another big news for you guys from Noob, they just launched special prices on their Milgauss, Explorer and Air King models, although these watches are all made with 316L stainless steel, they have good quality, and the most important is they are from Noob, and at such low prices, they are still very attractive to many people.
About these Rolex models, maybe other factories like AR make them with 904L stainless steel, however, you can not see any difference with the ones made with 316L stainless steel. About the dial details like lettering thickness, the laser crown logo in the crystal, I have to say that no other factories can do better than Noob. Please check the photos below, there are totally four models at special prices this time, if you are interested in any one of them, please contact me via email.
The Coronavirus is horrible, it started in January, 2020, it is Feb 16th now and the virus was just basically under control. Not many people died in Chinese cities except Wuhan, I do not know what caused the virus, most experts said it is bat. I think, maybe the batman flew across the pacific and brought the virus to our country, just a joke, do not mind.
Fortunately I am not infected with this virus, so are my friends in the watch factories and shipping companies. Say thanks to my friends abroad, thank you for your concern. On Feb 1st, I got a fever and headache, I thought I was infected, but after being checked in the hospital and cured, they said I just had a bad cold, thanks god, now I am very heathy and ready to back to work.
About watch factories, Noob, AR, ZF, GM, GF and others have already back to work, they accept orders now, so you guys can place your orders with me. About shipping service, due to the virus, my shipping company can only accept fake goods shipment after Feb 20th, so I think the shipping service will become normal after Feb 20th. My clients also ordered some watches during the holiday, do not worry, I have already ordered your watches from the factories, when I got them, I will take QC photos for you guys and arrange shipment immediately after Feb 20th.
Now factories are going to spend their holiday, you guys need to be quick if wanting to order some watches, based on past experience, some watch factories will not leave for holiday before Jan 20th, so you still have a lot of time to decide which watches to buy, please email me if you need advice.
Just in last week, there is a big news coming from our market, that is Noob added four new products to their Daytona collection, now, customers have more choices when they have decided to buy the best Daytona watch in the market. Please see photos below, these four new models are in stainless steel, each has a different dial color, which is in black, white, blue and grey. Absolutely they share the same technical details as the latest V3 Daytona of Noob.
They are made with 904L stainless steel, the movement inside is a super clone 4130, which is the most important creation Noob is proud of, due to this movement, the case of Daytona from Noob is reduced in thickness, which is only 12.5mm, very close to the thickness of genuine Daytona, the weight of the entire watch is also very close to genuine.
Just confirmed with the factory, the four new Daytona models still have some stocks, but I think they will be soon out of stock because Noob Daytona is so hot, for some yellow gold or rose gold models with rubber straps, you need to wait almost one month for Noob to release the stocks. However, for popular models that have frequent sales, like ref. 116500 ceramic with black dial or white dial, Noob keeps a large stock, if you need the latest V3 edition of Daytona 116500, please email me. Now, let’s appreciate the artworks from Noob.